It's a bit like Tara's speech, only how it should have gone.

[quinara]

As a tangent to angearia's post on Buffy and Forgiveness I've been trying to formulate how I actually see Spuffy in S7. Thankfully, Tara pretty much had it nailed in Entropy, with one or two minor adjustments:

Things fall apart. They fall apart so hard. You can't ever put them back the way they were. You know, it takes time. You can't just [rely on each other because no one else is quite so dependable ] and expect... There's just so much to work through. Trust has to be built again, on both sides. You have to learn if you're even the same people you were, if you can fit in each other's lives. It's a long, important process, and [you can't just skip it, because otherwise all you're doing is shagging through the mistrust until one of you gets shot, which isn't a long-term solution].

I don't think I have anything insightful to add to that, really, so my meta's basically stalled before it's begun. But, just for a bit of personal colour, I'll say I'm optimistically cynical, so I don't think they had finished negotiating the process by the end of Chosen, but at the same time I think it would have been perfectly feasible for them to make it into a stable, only-new-issues-plz relationship by the end of a (hypothetical) season that came after. The immediate things I see that they had left to fix, after all, are relatively simple: for a start they needed to normalise their sleepy cuddles into something that wasn't coloured by 'the world might be ending - there's no need to visualise the future', and then they needed to make headway into the scary realm of actively attempting leisure activities, rather than 'I need to sit in the quiet - do you need to sit in the quiet? - let's sit in the quiet'.

Not that I'm trying to knock sitting in the quiet, I hasten to add, but it's a difference of planning to spend time with someone because they are someone and spending time with someone without planning partly because they aren't everybody else. 'I can be alone with you here' says something important, but it's a lack-of-negative rather than a positive. And while clearly Buffy and Spike were seeking out each other's company by the end of S7 (which is a step up), they equally weren't making plans and only negotiated things (like where Buffy was sleeping in Chosen) as and when it was necessary to do so. Short-term stuff =/= putting all their issues behind them. (And oh, hell, did I just argue that what Buffy and Spike needed to do was agree they were 'going steady'??)

So, yeah, that's where I am, I think. S7 Spuffy: means to an end, the conclusion of which we were so rudely deprived of. Still my favourite Spuffy season though. ;)

ETA: Off for pizza (yay pizza!).

Comments

[evilawyer]

'I can be alone with you here'

That was a weird line. In other circumstances (i.e., Season 6, and I think she pretty much said almost the same thing when they were sitting out on the Magic Box' loading deck and Spike was trapped by the sun), it could have been cold if not rude. But by Season 7, it's not. It's not a walloping huge compliment, but it bespeaks of a kind of comfort that's not terribly personal. It's not hollow, but it's not deep. It's on it's way somewhere else. Of course, we don't get to see it get to it's destination, so yes, we were rudely deprived.

Thank goodness for fanfic.

[quinara]

think she pretty much said almost the same thing when they were sitting out on the Magic Box' loading deck and Spike was trapped by the sun

That is when she says it! I'm not sure she says anything similar in S7 - 'I'm not ready for you to not be here', maybe? But yeah, S7 for me is all about the moving forward (very very slowly).

Thank goodness for fanfic.

*nods vigorously*

[evilawyer]

Yes --- you're right. "I'm not ready..." was what she said in S7. I get them mixed up because I see them as variations on the same sentiment with, as you say, slowly creeping forward movement on the S7 interaction.

This gets tangential to your point, but I wonder what you think. Buffy was the first show where I got involved in it as a "fandom", as opposed to liking it a great deal but not engaging in discussion with others in any detail, and it was the first show that I became sort...disillusioned with (I think that's the word. Not that I don't like it --- I still love it and always will (got no use for the comics, as you know), but I find myself preferring fanfic to the show, at least on occassion, because the show just doesn't "deliver" somehow.

I was wondering what you thought about the possibility that participation in fandom breeds a higher level of expectation in the show and a greater level of disenchantment when that expectation isn't met. When you get a spare moment, I'd love your thoughts on this.

[quinara]

I was wondering what you thought about the possibility that participation in fandom breeds a higher level of expectation in the show and a greater level of disenchantment when that expectation isn't met.

Hmm - I think it does to some extent. I mean, I'm so used to all of Buffy's creaks and foibles now that it would be weird if it were more coherent than it was, but I think fandom definitely encourages you to pay attention more - you rewatch episodes and buy the DVDs between seasons, and if you're talking with other people about the show then you end up with a really high working knowledge of what happened in the past. And I think you immediately think that the writers/creators (if they're doing their job properly) should have the same sort of knowledge.

There've been clear moments in S8 where Joss has just forgotten things, and I think he's heavily implied that he works with BtVS on a continuing basis, as a series of stories going from one to another (and sometimes going on on at the same time as he decided which he was interested in), rather than one long cohesive WIP, so I wouldn't be surprised if he were working in the same way on the show when it was airing. So there are a lot of loose threads with the show - whereas fanfic tends to aim for satisfaction first and foremost, limiting itself to what it can successfully conclude in its constraints.

I don't know if any of that rings true with you?

[evilawyer]

It does. You have hit on what I've been noticing but haven't yet been able to express. Fanfic does appear to be more directed, which makes sense given that any given fanfic can focus one element of a show that has multiple strings running at any given time. And it also gives some ability to explain why a show appears to have loose threads --- the writers may have greater interest in one thread over all others --- other than just blaming the writers for being sloppy with continuity, although I personally think that writers (all every once in a while, some all the time) do tend to get sloppy in that regard.

I guess there's no reason why the human tendency to deal only with what you want to deal shouldn't apply to professional writers, but I personally have higher expectations from professional writers than "they should write what/how they like and I should be okay with that.." Coherent, entertaining plot writing is their job, and it's not like it's impossible to think ahead of time that subject X may create problem Y but that it could also conflict with solution C. But, yes, the focus attention one uses in fanfic reading/writing may well have the potential to make one hypersensitive to discontinuity and make it more galling to see.