Random Stuff 3 - Curious Comics Response

[quinara]

I don't know why I persist in wandering over to Whedonesque every now and then, but I happened to come across one of the preview images for the Angel and Faith comic and discussion about whether or not it actually looked like London. I have to say, I wasn't feeling it - but I found it interesting trying to pin down exactly why that was. And so, with my thesis done and handed in and a yawning afternoon of mindless nothing ahead of me, I started dabbling with my ancient copy of PSP4 and altering everything that niggled at me. Outside of a mawkish curiosity, I don't have much interest in A&F as a comic, so it was more of a London fandom enterprise than anything, but I'm interested to know what people think places the scene and what doesn't, especially if it's different to what I think...

This is the actual frame:


And then I faffed with it (to a low production value):


I think the main thing that struck me, apart from the roads (and the fire hydrant and the signage) was how busy the architecture was on buildings that were clearly very small, and seemed to me like they had to be an ultra-tiny little row of terraces, squeezed into the space beside the graveyard. And then it seemed like no way could one of them be a shop on its own.

What are your thoughts? Do you even think it looks dramatically different?

Comments

[next_to_normal]

Hmmm, I don't know if I would've noticed the architecture, but the roads, fire hydrant, and signage definitely seemed off to me. And I'm an American who spent three months in London, so if even I can spot that, it's kinda sad.

I think the unlined roads combined with the busy architecture also make it seem older? Not that there aren't old-looking parts of London, but it reminded me of how Germany in the comics permanently exists in the 19th century... :-P

What was the verdict on Whedonesque?

[quinara]

Heh. What I find myself wondering is how American they actually look, or whether some attempt was made to place the setting elsewhere, only for it to have been a little botched. Because I'm not very familiar with America; the original frame reads to me more like small-town France than London, especially with that thin metal shutter (not unseen in London, but not standard) and the shutters on that end window.

There's definitely something olde worlde going on. :D I think what happens when people who've only lived in modern cities try to recreate these old places is that they end up forgetting that all the old stuff is very much still part of the working town. Those cobbles would have concrete bits where the water mains could be dug up, and no one would have any qualms about slapping paint on and knocking through the walls on a standard Victorian house. As for the architecture... I just don't really know what it's meant to be; the middle house looks like it's attempting something more like a Georgian town house in style, but I wouldn't ever expect to see one that small. On all three, it just looks very strange to see so much (expensive) fuss on what are clearly titchy and cheap houses.

If I were to be unfair to Whedonesque, I would say it was divided down the lines of people who are willing to accept a Joss project can be at fault and those who think the man, er, defecates golden eggs. With a bigger benefit of the doubt, there seemed to be a greater divide between people who looked and saw 'narrow cobbled street + mixed architecture' and could be happy with that as London, vs. the people for whom details were more important. And then there was something about how films always use LA as a set for New York or Chicago or wherever, so really no one should complain about a drawn comic. Or something.

[next_to_normal]

Yeah, it doesn't really look American at all. Well, the fire hydrant and stop sign stood out as American, but the street signs, the cobbles, and the architecture all seem more like France to me.

Oh, Whedonesque. Logic: ur doin it wrong. They do realize that the reason certain cities, like LA or Vancouver, stand in for other cities so often is because of the production cost involved in location shooting? And that Joss' motivation for moving to a comic medium is so that he wouldn't be constrained by things such as production cost? So, er, by that logic, a drawn comic should be MORE accurate than a filmed work?

[quinara]

Good to know we're on the same page! I wonder if the artist has been to France?

And that Joss' motivation for moving to a comic medium is so that he wouldn't be constrained by things such as production cost? So, er, by that logic, a drawn comic should be MORE accurate than a filmed work?

You would have thought so. But then I get the impression Joss mostly meant being able to do what he wanted with CGI, rather than actually making things global in the sense of recognisably moving beyond the US...

[next_to_normal]

But then I get the impression Joss mostly meant being able to do what he wanted with CGI, rather than actually making things global in the sense of recognisably moving beyond the US...

Well, this is true - but how many locations did we hit in S8? Scotland, England, Italy, Cleveland, New York, Germany, Japan, Tibet, and now San Francisco and London. (Did I miss any?) We never had that on the show, so part of Joss' plan clearly seems to have been to use the comics to exponentially broaden the scope of the story and make it a global conflict, whereas the show was always restricted primarily to Sunnydale.

I mean, if he didn't care about accuracy, he could've done that years ago - and the entire world would look like southern California. :)

[quinara]

I mean, if he didn't care about accuracy, he could've done that years ago - and the entire world would look like southern California. :)

It's true - although even then we did make it to England once or twice, which wasn't quite southern California, if still quite comedy...

[via_ostiense]

The fire hydrant looks like a Chicago fire hydrant--don't know if the extra-short variety is used in other places in the U.S., or in London, but I've only seen them in Chicago. And the signs, yeah, and that blob next to the street lamp in the top panel, I think that's supposed to be a mail drop box, and it definitely looks like a U.S.-style one rather than a pillar box.

[quinara]

That's interesting about the fire hydrant. I find it hard to tell the difference, because the big joke here is that the UK doesn't even have fire hydrants as street furniture - we have signs to it, but actual access to the water main is under a flat metal plate built into the pavement - so hydrants all kind of look the same to me (and have a definite 'American' vibe). Completely out of place here!

I wasn't sure what that blob was meant to be - it looked a bit like another hydrant, so I got rid of it, but that's interesting if it's a post box. Definitely not a pillar box. :D

[next_to_normal]

that blob next to the street lamp in the top panel, I think that's supposed to be a mail drop box, and it definitely looks like a U.S.-style one rather than a pillar box.

Huh. See, I thought it was a trash can - and they don't have them in London (or at least they didn't back when I was there) because of terrorism, so that stood out to me as American.

The fire hydrant does look rather short, but I didn't realize that was a specific style of hydrant (having never been to Chicago!). I figured it was just sloppy art. :)

[quinara]

See, I thought it was a trash can - and they don't have them in London (or at least they didn't back when I was there) because of terrorism, so that stood out to me as American.

You do get rubbish bins in London still (they're more rare in stations these days, and often (IIRC) will be a clear plastic bag you can see inside when they're there), but they don't have blobs on the side. Thinking about it, the shadow still would have worked if I shaved that off the side, because the placing would make sense.

[next_to_normal]

Haha, I just remember walking around London (this was back in 2004) and being like, "WHY IS THERE NO PLACE TO DISPOSE OF MY TRASH?? IT'S LIKE THEY WANT ME TO LITTER!"

[quinara]

:D You're meant to put it in your bag and take it home... *nods piously*

[via_ostiense]

Trash can, mail drop box -- I wasn't sure what it was, honestly, because it just looked, well, blobby, to be honest. An Americanism in any case, it seems!

Fire hydrants in California and everywhere I've been except for Chicago are usually taller than the one depicted in the comic panel, perhaps a third to half again as tall. For some reason, Chicago uses shorter hydrants that are quite aggravating because it's hard to see them when driving by looking for a parking spot (it's illegal to park in front of a hydrant and block it).