Fanpoetry Poll!

[quinara]

I've been a bit busy running around with things over the last couple of days, so, while I managed to read quite a bit, I didn't have the time to comment very much. And now I've forgotten where I've been, so if you think I might have read something you've written, I probably did and probably thought it was great? Sorry for being useless. *slaps wrist*

In other news, I'm doing a talk at writerconuk in August, and worked out that that subject I could most easily be enthusiastic about was fanpoetry! So that's what I'm talking about. But! I would love to get some wider opinions on it, so please take my anonymous poll:

Poll #7506 Fanpoetry Poll

This poll is anonymous.
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 18

How do you relate to written fan stuff?

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I both read and write fic + I both read and write poetry.
9 (50.0%)

I both read and write fic + I read but don't write poetry.
4 (22.2%)

I both read and write fic + I write but don't read poetry.
1 (5.6%)

I both read and write fic + I neither read nor write poetry.
2 (11.1%)

I read but don't write fic + I both read and write poetry.
0 (0.0%)

I read but don't write fic + I read but don't write poetry.
2 (11.1%)

I read but don't write fic + I write but don't read poetry.
0 (0.0%)

I read but don't write fic + I neither read nor write poetry.
0 (0.0%)

I write but don't read fic + I both read and write poetry.
0 (0.0%)

I write but don't read fic + I read but don't write poetry.
0 (0.0%)

I write but don't read fic + I write but don't read poetry.
0 (0.0%)

I write but don't read fic + I neither read nor write poetry.
0 (0.0%)

I neither read nor write fic + I both read and write poetry.
0 (0.0%)

I neither read nor write fic + I read but don't write poetry.
0 (0.0%)

I neither read nor write fic + I write but don't read poetry.
0 (0.0%)

I neither read nor write fic + I neither read nor write poetry.
0 (0.0%)

Would your answer be the same when talking about non-fannish material?

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Yes.
9 (50.0%)

No, because I have more contact with non-fannish prose fiction.
0 (0.0%)

No, because I have less contact with non-fannish prose fiction.
3 (16.7%)

No, because I have more contact with non-fannish poetry.
3 (16.7%)

No, because I have less contact with non-fannish poetry.
4 (22.2%)

Do you like (even just the idea of) fanpoetry (no matter whether you're actually involved with it)?

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Yes.
15 (83.3%)

No.
0 (0.0%)

I care so little about the topic it staggers me.
3 (16.7%)

What's the reason behind your last answer?

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What do you think makes the best fanpoetry (or least bad)? [Any and all answers welcome here!]

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What do you think makes the worst fanpoetry (or least good)? [Again, any response is welcome!]

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Are your specificiations for the best/worst fanpoetry the same as those you have for fic?

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Yes.
3 (18.8%)

The best fic has the same qualities, but there are different qualities of bad between the two media.
2 (12.5%)

The best fic has different qualities from the best poetry, but the suckiest things suck in the same way.
4 (25.0%)

No, they are completely different animals and don't really belong in the same poll.
7 (43.8%)

What would make you read (more) fanpoetry? [Feel free to say 'nothing'!]

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What would make you write (more) fanpoetry?

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If you had 255 characters to write a line of a poem, what would that line be...?

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.

Also, do feel free to freeform ramble about fanpoetry in the comments, either on LJ or DW, and link the poll to people. I'd love to hear your thoughts! It's probably reasonably obvious that I'm a massive fan of the stuff - but maybe it's less obvious that I think loads more people could and should get involved with writing it, because it doesn't have to be complicated or difficult. I think it's great for getting inside characters' heads or looking at certain situations, where the same subject matter in prose could be really static and boring. Viva fanpoetry!

Comments

[shapinglight]

I suppose, now I think of it, drabbles are rather poetry-like. No wonder I have trouble with them.

[quinara]

Yeah, I see what you mean - though I think I feel a lot more comfortable with poetry than I do with drabbles! I'm very bad with turning an idea into an exact length (I like the focus of poems and making things scan, but also definitely like that they can be stretchy). I bet you could write great poetry, you know, Deb - especially funny poetry with twisty-turny jokes. You know what it means to turn a phrase, and that's all you need!

[shapinglight]

Perhaps. I think my major problem is that I'm never sure what constitutes poetry in the first place, beyond the obvious (like Shakespeare or Donne or Tennyson or whatever).

[quinara]

Hmm, that's interesting! I'm not sure there really is a definition, to be honest, because a problem I actually have with a lot of contemporary poetry is that I can't 'hear' it any differently than normal prose, and that gets on my nerves. For me, words become poetry when they aren't only a stand-in for the thought they're conveying, but deliver some of that message just by being themselves, with rhythm or the way they sound, or as they're forced around punctuation/line breaks. I don't think there's an exact line between prose and verse, because a lot of prose has (what I think of as) versey elements, but I tend to think that something is a poem if it feels like one. Which is wonderfully subjective...

I suppose, thinking about it, the way I see it is that I could at least partially appreciate a poem in a language I didn't know, because of the way the words sounded and fit together, whereas with prose I would have to know the meaning of the words before I could appreciate a paragraph of them.

[readerjane]

I've thought about this before -- where the boundary between prose and poetry is -- and I decided that for me, a poem needn't have a specific meter or rhyme scheme, but the sound needed to be important. Whether it was alliteration or sibilance or a percussive sound or *something*: if the actual sound of the words makes a difference to the meaning of the piece, then it's poetry.

When I write poems, though, I do tend to stick with a metric form. Partly because I enjoy the challenge, and partly because it forces me to cram more of everything: more meaning, more emotion, more imagery, into a smaller space. Sort of like boiling down a sauce to make it taste stronger. The discipline of drabbling is similar.

[quinara]

f the actual sound of the words makes a difference to the meaning of the piece, then it's poetry.

*nods* Yeah, I agree!

And I'm with you on liking metric forms as well. Though it's less about the challenge for me and more about finding a structure, because I've worked out that any 'blank' verse I do only ever happens well when there's some sort of structure involved. (I'm most comfortable either having freer scansion around a rhyme scheme or stricter rhythm without rhyme; I find having both or neither much harder.)

[snickfic]

I should qualify that my overall activity in fanpoetry is extremely low. I do read fanpoetry when I run across it (mostly yours!), but that isn't often, and I've only written one lonely sonnet. I read a lot more non-fannish poetry, but I haven't written any at all in years.

I think a lot of people are intimidated by poetry in general, especially modern poetry, and that carries over to fanpoetry. Personally, I tend to have trouble seeing the point of poetry that doesn't have some kind of rhyme or meter or other structural form to hold it together. Not always true (your Illyria-Buffy bodyswap poem is freeform, isn't it? And I loved that), but often.

I would love to write some more Spuffy sonnets sometime, because I like sonnets generally and I suspect Spike might have a fondness for them, too, but it'd require me sitting down and actually doing it, and I've been busy using that motivation on other writing projects. I'd applaud anyone else's efforts to write more, though!

[quinara]

Low activity is still good! I think my hope with this talk (and the version I'll post afterwards) is to encourage more people to get involved, because I think often people think that poetry's something much less accessible to them than it actually is. Like you say - people find it intimidating, when it doesn't need to be. I mean, the first bits of poetry anyone writes down are usually crap, and I suppose that comes across much starker than it does with prose, but most of the work of poetry is in the editing, which I think could appeal to a lot of people in fandom (it's all about spending the same amount of time as you'd spend on a 1000-2000 word ficlet on a 50-100 word poem - doesn't that sound fun??? ;) ).

(The Buffy-Illyria bodyswap was actually in regular stanzas of six lines iambic pentameter plus an extra line of two iambs, but maybe you were thinking of my remix of stultiloquentia's Illyria poem? That was basically free, with a really rough sestet-ish structure and very vague sense of rhyme...?)

I hope you find the time to write more Spuffy sonnets, because that would be wonderful!! I love sonnets, but only seem to be able to write them in a way that sounds cheesy. Great for Spike, but not for my self-image! (And have you ever read sobsister's stuff, by the way? I don't rec her Spuffy sonnet enough, but it's one of my absolute favourite fanpoems.)

[snickfic]

most of the work of poetry is in the editing, which I think could appeal to a lot of people in fandom (it's all about spending the same amount of time as you'd spend on a 1000-2000 word ficlet on a 50-100 word poem - doesn't that sound fun??? ;) ).

So I think it'd be really cool if, as part of your talk/post, you talked about what you like to see fannish poetry do, and what sorts of things it can accomplish. "Here are the possibilities, folks! Look what all you can do!"

Of course, if we count drabbles as you suggest to shapinglight, then I'm all over fannish poetry. :) And you're right, a lot of the editing and emphasis on structure is sort of similar - every word counts.

I think you're right - I must have been thinking of stultiloquentia's poem. But I liked them both! And I shall definitely check out sobsister!

[stultiloquentia]

Are your specificiations for the best/worst fanpoetry the same as those you have for fic?

I didn't answer this one because you didn't have a radio button for, "It's coooompliicaaaated!"

For best/worst, I said, "A really clever match of form and function" / "The opposite -- where the poet picks 'sonnet' for no noticeable reason...and is then too frightened of the form to bend it to her will, and worries more about counting beats off on her fingers than staying true to her subject."

I can think of stories whose brilliance hinges their structure; I can think of sloppily structured pieces that still make my jaw hang open with awe.

Bad porn, hilariously, frequently has a lot in common with bad poetry. Otherwise good writers stub up against a sex scene and suddenly go all stiff and fearful, adher to weird, imaginary rules, and forget everything they know about what their characters think and sound like.

Now I want to take one of my sex scenes and try and rewrite it in poem form. Heh.

[quinara]

I didn't answer this one because you didn't have a radio button for, "It's coooompliicaaaated!"

Well, clearly data shouldn't be allowed to be complicated... But fine! ;)

I do agree with you, though - good fic can be good through the same specs as good poetry, but it can also just throw the whole idea of poetic brilliance away and be a fab story. (I personally voted for 'completely different animals' because of that, though I suppose it was kind of a lie. Genetically similar animals but with prose prone to mutation, maybe?)

And good point on the porn! I think I actually had that problem, which I've definitely had with poetry sometimes. Yeah, fear of the form can really make you lose control as a writer.

Now I want to take one of my sex scenes and try and rewrite it in poem form. Heh.

Do eeeeet!! I tried to make one of my Spike's-poems-to-Buffy porny, but it mostly became me riffing of Shakespeare (far too obscurely), so it wasn't quite a success from that perspective. I think pornpoems could be just what the medium needs - and according to the 'what would make you read' question, there is a hunger for more poetry (if only from my self-selecting pollpeeps)...

[daiseechain]

Blast you woman. I have in front of me a list of great many things to do.

And now my mind is all over the fanpoetry. *grumps* I'll probably be rhyming things and haikuing all over the show today.

*shakes fist*

[quinara]

Mwahahahahahahaaa... Eeeexcellent. :D